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I have a Hawken style T/C, with a 50 cal Green Mountain bbl. on it that is producing some really tight groups.
I've installed a set of Lyman sights on it...57ML rear, and globe front.
Can this be used for Table shooting..??? I'm not as familiar with classifications as I should be, but I don't think I can use this rifle in Hunter class. Is there another class for it, and what are those limits..???
In the previous discussion on front sight inserts, I believe we got a lot of good information. In my set of inserts, I have two that have been working well. For general information purposes, I'm posting this picture:
I don't believe the insert on the left is allowed. I believe the insert on the right is permitted.
Please advise or clarify if I've got this wrong.
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Hi Don,
The rifle you have pictured would qualify for the open class table shoots, not the hunter class. The only thing wrong with it for hunter class is the rear sight. Hunter class rifles must have an open non adjustable rear sight and be 10# or under. My hunter rifle is based on a TC Hawken with open rear sight and a 38" Green Mountain barrel. I took off the nose cap, shortened the fore stock and removed the under rib to help make weight. The rifle must also have provision for a ram rod which means a hole under the barrel to accept it. The open class must be 13# or less and can have rear peep sights and does not need provisions for a ram rod and can have conventional, underhammer or mule ear locks, hunter rifles must have a traditional side hammer lock.The sight insert you have pictured on the right is what is called a post and bead and is legal in both classes.
Mark
Last edited by smokinbuck (1/03/2016 12:43 PM)
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Thank you Mark. That is what I thought I knew..just wanted to be sure. We're going to be having a Table Shoot sometime this Spring at Port Malabar Rifle and Pistol Club in Palm Bay, FL. I want to be sure that my rifle, and that of all entrants are correctly evaluated.
I'm going back and forth on the sight issue. I also have an older T/C open rear sight I can mount on the rifle to stay in Hunter Class....just need to spend the range time and see which works best.
Last "Rule" question (for the moment...)
:
Can a forestock be "flattened" on the bottom, or even have a flat piece secured to it (not a separate piece) and does that provide more stability on the rest ??
Thank you for all the help. I'm planning to be in Friendship in June, and would like to be a bit more competitive by then, than my first experience last September.
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Don,
I think that what you are describing on the fore stock would be considered a cant or at least a modified cant. I would have to say it's a no no.
Mark
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smokinbuck wrote:
Hi Don,
The rifle you have pictured would qualify for the open class table shoots, not the hunter class. The only thing wrong with it for hunter class is the rear sight. Hunter class rifles must have an open non adjustable rear sight and be 10# or under. My hunter rifle is based on a TC Hawken with open rear sight and a 38" Green Mountain barrel. I took off the nose cap, shortened the fore stock and removed the under rib to help make weight. The rifle must also have provision for a ram rod which means a hole under the barrel to accept it. The open class must be 13# or less and can have rear peep sights and does not need provisions for a ram rod and can have conventional, underhammer or mule ear locks, hunter rifles must have a traditional side hammer lock.The sight insert you have pictured on the right is what is called a post and bead and is legal in both classes.
Mark
So would a mule ear not be legal in a Hunter match? In my mind it is a traditional lock as they were made back in the day?
RB
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Another question while we are on Rules? During out last match a guy changed out the aperture on his peep sight during the match the light had changed quite a bit during the match. To me this is making a sight adjustment and I say that's it's not legal to do so. There was a discussion on it and we as a club are about split 50/50 on the issue I would just like to get an official ruling. I feel that guy can use a Merit Optical Aid on his glasses and adjust that during the match if he desires but to adjust the aperture size on the sight is a sight adjustment and is not allowed once the match actually starts?
RB
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Rich,
I would agree that a mule ear is traditional but would like to hear what Robin has to say. I know the question has been raised before. As far as changing the aperture in a sight once a record shot has been fired, I would say no. That is adjusting the sight. Even changing the aperture size in the merit disc might be questioned after a record shot has been fired.
Mark
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That's what I'm thinking but I wouldn't argue with a guy shooting open sights and adjusted the optic disc that sticks to one's glasses. My thoughts anyway.
RB
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Okay guys I'm doing this off my phone so it'll be short and sweet. No one should be changing out apertures the contest begins we even do not want them rotating the adjustable disc because that is an adjustment to your site.
According to the National muzzle loading rifle Association mule air lock is a traditional lock, in the hunter class you may use a Flintlock a side hammer percussion or a mule in those would be the only three styles of locks allowed when I get a chance to sit at the computer I'll look this string over a little better and see if I miss something thank you and I will talk to you later.
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The discussion of visual aids...Merritt Eye discs(whether worn on glasses or installed on a sight), apertures, shaders, etc. is interesting and appears to open a number of questions.
Let me preface by saying I'm pretty new to all this, and have very little experience in formal muzzleloader competition of any kind under NMLRA rules. This is all a learning experience for me, and I appreciate the dialogue this forum provides.
I've always considered intention of rules governing the adjustment of rifle sights to be simply limited to making changes in settings for windage and elevation that move the p.o.i. after the first record shot has been taken. The kind of visual aids and "adjustments" we're talking about here are related more to providing non-magnifying vision assistance, rather than making direct adjustments to p.o.i., which is what I have always believed to be the intent of the rule forbidding "sight adjustments".
Am I being too simplistic..???
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Good question Don I will be curious to see what the answer is for that! I bet that we are giving Robin something to think about anyway! I do feel that changing out the aperture does constitute a "sight change" I have and use both the adjustable apertures one that fits on the glasses and the other that screws into to rear sight and they do make a big difference when the light changes. You can dial in the perfect front sight and target picture well almost anyway just by changing the size of the aperture. I noticed the other day when we shot that the light changed a great deal from when we started to the time that we finished and it was a clear day? Winter time hours maybe, shorter days the sun isn't up there for nearly as long as the summer. Simple is better but you do have to draw fine line somewhere.
RB
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I am a 70+ year old guy who loves to shoot targets especially with muzzleloaders.Chunkgun matches has been my sport for several years.I am having to give that up because of not being able to see my sights.For some reason peep are not allowed.Just at the right time The Table Shoot came along with the intent of keeping the older guys involved. That was great and I'm really enjoying it.I can understand not allowing one to hold up the whole match while sighting in his rifle.One should come prepared.I can't see in the name of sportsmanship or fairness wanting to deny a fellow shooter the ability to have the best sight picture possible.We all know the center of an object is the same regardless of the diameter.
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