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In the November 2007 issue of Muzzle Blasts the bevel brothers said they thought weighed charges were the
way to go for serious target work.
I have been using pre-weighted charges and balls for about 6 years doing so has improved my groups. I was
wondering how many table shooters are using weighed charges and balls, how many think it is a waste of time?
Dick
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Hello Dick
I have toyed from time to time with using weight powder charges. I have often taken the time to weigh the balls but I will be using in a match, say if I know I'm shooting 3 to 5 warm-up shots and 10 scoring shots. I will weigh around 25 balls into a lot.
I definitely do think there is an advantage. You remove some variables such as the shaking of your hand tapping your volumetric powder measure against something. Using a powder scale in the correct environment, I believe would offer you more consistent results. I do believe you would have to use the most consistent powder you could find. By consistent, I mean, most even granulation. And am considering going to pre-weighed powder for my chunk gun shooting. I had really not thought about this so much in the table game. There is no prohibition against it. However, the founders intended for the game to be played from either a pouch or small, shooting box staying with the; getting all your equipment to the range on one trip, by carrying it and not use of wagon a fork truck. By the way, I have seen many kinds of containers used over the years. One gentleman use the canisters that 35mm film came in, of course, those could now be hard to find many of them have had varying shapes and sizes of glass vials. This seems to me, probably to be the best as you could avoid the static charge that plastic may offer making the powder stick to the side of the canister. You would also be able to easily see what all the powder had evacuated canister.
Robin
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Hi Dick,
Robin has summed it up pretty well. Whether it is chunk, table or any other type of shooting, consistency is one of the most important things you can strive for. Pre weighing your charges is one aspect that can be controlled, the rest is up to the shooter. See you at the range.
Mark
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I totally agree with what Robin and Mark have said. Good luck
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While I was measuring charges today I was thinking about all the reasons I go through the work and one that came to mind besides consistency was what a time saver at the loading bench. If one has more time to read the wind the better off you are, one more reason for pre measuring charges, just my opinion.
Michael Jay
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You can buy glass vials with caps from laboratory supply houses. Here's one source.
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I think this all falls in line with "consistancy".
I work with a couple of youth rifle programs and am constantly preaching...
"If you do the same thing the same way every time, the chances of the hole in the target being in the same place will be that much better."
(as long as you are doing it properly to start with)
Thanks,
Dave
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Kermit wrote:
You can buy glass vials with caps from laboratory supply houses. Here's one source.
Here is another source,
With the MTM box, a nice package...
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Hey, thanks! Never thought of using a 20ga ammo box to carry. Might make my own wooden one--or not.
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That 4 dram bottle fits the 20 ga. box nicely. That combo is a favorite with the long range guys.
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About how much powder will a 4 dram bottle carry? As near as a volume equal measure amount that I can come up with is one dram equals one eight ounce liquid?
RB
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Salola is right on. A dram is the equivilant of 27.5 grains.
Mark
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Salola is right on. A dram is the equivilant of 27.5 grains.
Mark
Well boys I have a piece of advice. Last week I bought glass Boston round bottles with caps in 1 oz size or roughly 8 drams. Now, I used that same conversion Mark just posted. Well that is what I thought it would take for a 140 gn. Chunk gun charge. I will say for some reason this conversion isn't accurate for powder charges. For 140 gns. they may use 1/3 of the bottles capacity. So for 150 or less, I would recommend use 1/2 oz. bottles. Hope this is useful!
Here is a link:
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Could be that the manufacturer's spec is for liquids and we endeavor to use dry powder?
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Colton,
I think Kermit may be right. I went to the post you listed and found that all but one bottle was measured in ounces, not drams. 27.5 grains per dram is what I've always used for loading my shotguns and has always been the accepted conversion.
Mark
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That is what I was asking about sure 27.5 grains of weight is a known factor but 27.5 grains of salt is not equal to the volume of 27.5 grains of cornmeal? I need a accurate test tube to measure the volume of 175 grains of 2 ff powder and I'm sure that different brands or even lots of powder will measure different?
RB
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The confusion is a common one. The comparison of weight verses volume regarding blackpowder. Drams have a historical use as both a unit of weight and of liquid volume. These bottles are specified as liquid volume. The avoirdupois dram is a unit of weight for blackpowder measure, 256 drams to a pound avoirdupois, 16 drams to one ounce, Again bottles are for a liquid measure.
Last edited by Salola (4/04/2015 4:26 PM)
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I have no affiliation or knowledge of this fellow and I don't support ebay but I think he has a answer to which tube size for charges. Scroll down to see pics #2. He says the 10 ml will hold 200 gr, of 3F Goex.
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The 4 dram bottle converts to 14.786764781 ml.
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That's a lot of decimal places! Talk about precision!!!
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We don't round off string measure either......
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Hi, I just weighed some 3f swiss from a one dram bottle, it held 79 grains.more or less depending on if it is tapped to settle it . A 2 dram bottle holds 148 grains of 3f swiss, more or less again. Screw top bottles were filled flush then weighed.
I have carried powder in bottles while hunting since I was a kid. I also carried along a dixon adjustable flask to refill the bottles. I never weighed the charges on a powder scale until I got interested in accuracy and it helps the consistancy. Just throwing charges from a measure can easily vary 10 percent.
Jim
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Jim,
Something doesn't sound right. I realize there will be a little difference between FFg and FFFg, but the common conversion from dram to grains has always been 1 dram = 27.5 +/- grains. With all due respect, did you check the balance on your scale before you weighed it to be certain it zeroed?
Mark
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Jim,
Something doesn't sound right. I realize there will be a little difference between FFg and FFFg, but the common conversion from dram to grains has always been 1 dram = 27.5 +/- grains. With all due respect, did you check the balance on your scale before you weighed it to be certain it zeroed?
Mark
I'm sorry Mark but I agree with Jim. This 27.5 grn conversion may work for dry weight. However these bottles are measured in liquid. I just did this last week, and I promise you that a 8 dram or 1 ounce bottle holding 140 of 1.5 fg Swiss wasn't even half full!
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Sounds to me like these "liquid" bottles are making things more complicated than need be, especially for us old farts. If I start pre measuring I think I'll stick to my reloading scale and appropriate containers.
Mark
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If I finally start pre-measuring you can bet it will be across to set a powder scales. I kind of like the black horn bottles you can see through them, and I'm guessing the material they are made of, may not allow the powder to stick. I may order quantity of those and see how they do.
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I looked this info up in calculations and conversions chart
one dram avoirdupois = 27.344 grains
one dram apothecaries = 60.0 grains
one fluid dram = 0.2256 cubic inches
one fluid dram = 0.125 fluid ounce
Black powder is sold by weight not volume.
I hope this does not confuse anyone.
Jim
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I'm missing the issue here. If you want to use pre-measured charges, choose any container you find convenient. Then measure your charges using whatever metric you choose, by volume or weight. Dump it in the containers, cap or plug, go shootin'.
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That is it Kermit. The bottles I was speaking about are convienant as they fit the 20 gauge shell box for carry and storage.
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